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When I came to this tribe, I found that a lot of people were focusing on only one or two things about compatibility; mainly, clash of animal sign in the year pillar... which really isn't doing Chinese astrology justice, and I am worried that people are being led to stereotype against one animal sign or any other signs.
Let me establish a few basic grounds:
- Yang (Positive) and Yin (Negative) = completion; same elements push each other away.
- Five elements = Wood, Fire, Earth, Metal, Water; divided into yang and yin elements
- Each element has a parent, friend, child, wealth, and a controller.
- Each person has 4 pillars upon birth = Year, Month, Day, and Hour.
- The element on top of the Day pillar (above the animal) is self; the core. The year usually represents the first defense, the face we show everyone, and it goes more in-depth closer to the person's self as it gets closer to the self.
- Reading a chart for a man is different from a woman, and elements represent different things to a man as it does a woman.
Some people are born in season, some are born out of season, some are born with lots of siblings/friends and not enough wealth, and some are born with a lot of wealth, but not a lot of siblings. Some have a lot of parent elements in their charts, some have a lot of output elements in their charts. Some are born with a wet cold chart, some are born with a dry hot chart, some are born with warm chart, some are born with cooler chart. Some have a lot of yang element, some have a lot of yin element. Some may be entirely yang, some may be entirely yin. Some are born as "weak," some are born as "strong," and the 10 year luck period determines how one's life will be in terms of luck given to that individual (these are all in relation to elements).
There are what's called "normal" charts, which require balancing of the 5 elements, and then there are crazy "abnormal" charts, where due to a severe imbalance, must be interpreted differently, not for balance.
Furthermore, compatibility isn't something that where two people meet, they'll just have good times, get married, and live happily ever after. People who have bad compatibility with each other can fall in love with each other and then live a perfectly happy life, and a couple with "perfect compatibility" can get divorced. every 10 years, every 5 years, and every year, month, day, and hour, situations change, and lucks change. Thus those with perfect compatibility may meet bad situations that drive them apart, and those who supposedly have bad compatibility with each other may end up in good situations that bring them together. The key is "working problems out together," in any situations.
Why do I say all these? It means that even if they're perfect for each other, it may not be, and even if they're not perfect for each other, they may indeed be. Even clashes are not bad; they merely denote change. Keep that in mind.
Now, (as an example) I was reading one post about a guy here, who was complaining that his girlfriend cheated on him and it hurt him... and he was asking if all " ___ rat" women were like that. Of course not, and no, I'm not defending a rat because I am one; I merely want to say there is no "bad" person if you really understand Chinese astrology, just "bad decisions", and "bad circumstances."
I'd probably look to his chart to see whether he has an excess element that was of the same element as himself, and how many of the "wealth" element he had in his chart. Why? If he has not a lot of wealth element (which is the element he controls) and a lot of "friend" element, then it will be likely that he ends up fighting over a limited resource against his peers. Now when I say peers, it doesn't have to be someone he knows. It just has to be another "male". To a man, the wealth element represents money and women. If you don't have a lot, naturally it's very important, but if you have a lot of "friend elements", they want a piece of that too, so you end up fighting over it.
It seems like she was cheating on him, which means another element (let's say his daymaster element was metal; if he has a lot of metal, but not a lot of wood element, then he would be "fighting" with the other metals to stake clam against the one wood element). If he was the only metal element, and he was born in spring, so he has a lot of wood element, then he's too weak to handle all the "wealth and women", so he "can't effectively manage" them, which would then require his other "metal" friends to come and help him (who comes and goes is determined by the 10 year luck periods). Which means until that element came, he probably wouldn't find himself a girlfriend because it's not favorable to his health.
I would then look to the woman's chart to see whether she had an excess of the "controlling" element. Let's say she was born on the day of earth element; then the controlling element would be wood; if she was born at the time when wood was strong, and there were many wood elements in her chart, it denotes that a lot of men would naturally try to get her; there are a lot of men in her life. It also means that because there are so many of them, not one of those "wood" element is really special to her. I'm not saying what she did was right, but that we need to look through many different lenses to understand each other.
The scary thing about Chinese astrology is that it will tell you if someone will steal your girlfriend/boyfriend, it will tell you if you'll be wealthy/poor, if you'll be good at school/or bad at school, and it will tell you if you'll have a good family life or not quite well.
But that doesn't mean any one person is born "bad." They may be born into an unfavorable condition, or they may be experiencing a bad luck period or year in regards to that element; clashes work in this manner; if you were in a bad situation and there is a clash, if it's positive it can break that bad situation; if negative, it can worsen the bad situation. I'm not saying anyone should just accept their four pillars as it is and get depressed that they'll never find the one, or that they'll always lose their girlfriend/boyfriend to someone else, but I think it is important that one realizes what elements are good for them, be more aware of what they have and what they do not have, so they can behave in a manner that won't be hurtful to another person, because Karma is very much in play here (although not quite in the same wording).
It may be possible that "in the next life," the cheating woman may end up as an earth element surrounded by lots of earth element, and one or no wood in her chart; then she'll end up having to fight over that one wood against all the other earth elements. Or even in this life, depending on strength of her element, she may not be able to handle it and lose it, or become too strong so the balance breaks.
Compatibility between two people is always very fickle, changing with years, months, and decades.
Let's look at the animals then.
There are 12 animals (we all know of them), they all have certain elements assigned to them (with other elements hidden in the stems). There are trines and squares:
Fire Trine: Tiger, Horse, Dog
Wood Trine: Pig, Rabbit, Sheep
Water Trine: Monkey, Rat, Dragon
Metal Trine: Snake, Rooster, Ox
A lot of people go by this trine for compatibility; but let's say a person is an earth element (with no other earth element), sitting on monkey, rat, dragon trine. This person has a lot of water (wealth), but he's weak, so he needs something to break it. What would he seek? He'll probably find someone with the fire trine animal in their charts because fire trine animal will clash against the water trine, break up the water trine, and warm up his chart, strengthening it. Technically, it's not a "good compatible situation," from animal purely, but that's what this person needs to balance himself out.
It's not the same for everyone because there are so many different charts out there. Now let's look at the clashing animals:
"Cant' stay still" Clash: Tiger, Monkey, Snake, Pig
"Lover" Clash: Rat, Horse, Rabbit, Rooster
"Thinks too much" Clash: Ox, Sheep, Dragon, Dog
the names in the "" is something I made up for easier understanding. "Can't stay still" animals move around a lot; people with these move around a lot; people in these animal periods may find themselves moving around a lot. If there are animals clashing those, then one may lose through "moving around so much". "Lover" animals tend to be attractive to the opposite sex, but it also brings in a lot of trouble in terms of love (all's fair in love and war; in their case, love = war, their entire life). "Thinks too much" animals... think too much; these are the four earth elements which are "graveyards" of different elements, and when there's a clash for these, it's like having an earthquake, and depending on which animals clash and what elements pop out of the "graveyards," it will have those effects.
In the above example, I think the man was born in the year of the horse, the woman the year of the rat; so let's look only at that; they obviously are attractive to each other ("lover" clash), but are they necessarily good for each other? It depends on whether this clash produces an element favorable to both people involved. It may have been that the element resulting from the clash wasn't good for either people. People cheat on others usually because they don't think they're getting "what they need" out of the relationship, I think... there are other reasons, but it may be that the clash didn't produce an element beneficial to both charts, but harmed it (as the result shows), but now, I'm only focusing on the year, which means there was a clash that may have ruined their "face". Obviously in-depth analysis would be better, but I don't have that information... and I think this is already in depth enough to explain the system to certain extent. Clash isn't bad; it just says that they may experience a lot of changes while they're with this person because they shape each other. This can be bad or good depending on one's chart, so looking at animal and determining on spot whether this person is good or bad for me is not good.
Not a lot of people are born with a perfectly balanced chart (element or living situations), which is why so many people "seek someone else" to balance their own chart out. That person may be in a "clashing" situation, or it may be that the person trines another element; but what is important is that no matter what happens, the "I (the self)" focus on bettering oneself, after it's all said and done, learn lessons and find someone who is a better fit, with the thought in mind that no one is perfect for each other without effort.
I hope I explained at least basically why judging based on one animal on the year pillar is not accurate and superficial at best. :)
If you have any questions (but I will not answer, is this person compatible with me? because I don't have that much skills to tell you) about something that I wrote, feel free to let me know, and I'll try to clarify; if you don't agree with what I wrote here, let me know and we can talk about what it is that is in conflict. :)
Let me establish a few basic grounds:
- Yang (Positive) and Yin (Negative) = completion; same elements push each other away.
- Five elements = Wood, Fire, Earth, Metal, Water; divided into yang and yin elements
- Each element has a parent, friend, child, wealth, and a controller.
- Each person has 4 pillars upon birth = Year, Month, Day, and Hour.
- The element on top of the Day pillar (above the animal) is self; the core. The year usually represents the first defense, the face we show everyone, and it goes more in-depth closer to the person's self as it gets closer to the self.
- Reading a chart for a man is different from a woman, and elements represent different things to a man as it does a woman.
Some people are born in season, some are born out of season, some are born with lots of siblings/friends and not enough wealth, and some are born with a lot of wealth, but not a lot of siblings. Some have a lot of parent elements in their charts, some have a lot of output elements in their charts. Some are born with a wet cold chart, some are born with a dry hot chart, some are born with warm chart, some are born with cooler chart. Some have a lot of yang element, some have a lot of yin element. Some may be entirely yang, some may be entirely yin. Some are born as "weak," some are born as "strong," and the 10 year luck period determines how one's life will be in terms of luck given to that individual (these are all in relation to elements).
There are what's called "normal" charts, which require balancing of the 5 elements, and then there are crazy "abnormal" charts, where due to a severe imbalance, must be interpreted differently, not for balance.
Furthermore, compatibility isn't something that where two people meet, they'll just have good times, get married, and live happily ever after. People who have bad compatibility with each other can fall in love with each other and then live a perfectly happy life, and a couple with "perfect compatibility" can get divorced. every 10 years, every 5 years, and every year, month, day, and hour, situations change, and lucks change. Thus those with perfect compatibility may meet bad situations that drive them apart, and those who supposedly have bad compatibility with each other may end up in good situations that bring them together. The key is "working problems out together," in any situations.
Why do I say all these? It means that even if they're perfect for each other, it may not be, and even if they're not perfect for each other, they may indeed be. Even clashes are not bad; they merely denote change. Keep that in mind.
Now, (as an example) I was reading one post about a guy here, who was complaining that his girlfriend cheated on him and it hurt him... and he was asking if all " ___ rat" women were like that. Of course not, and no, I'm not defending a rat because I am one; I merely want to say there is no "bad" person if you really understand Chinese astrology, just "bad decisions", and "bad circumstances."
I'd probably look to his chart to see whether he has an excess element that was of the same element as himself, and how many of the "wealth" element he had in his chart. Why? If he has not a lot of wealth element (which is the element he controls) and a lot of "friend" element, then it will be likely that he ends up fighting over a limited resource against his peers. Now when I say peers, it doesn't have to be someone he knows. It just has to be another "male". To a man, the wealth element represents money and women. If you don't have a lot, naturally it's very important, but if you have a lot of "friend elements", they want a piece of that too, so you end up fighting over it.
It seems like she was cheating on him, which means another element (let's say his daymaster element was metal; if he has a lot of metal, but not a lot of wood element, then he would be "fighting" with the other metals to stake clam against the one wood element). If he was the only metal element, and he was born in spring, so he has a lot of wood element, then he's too weak to handle all the "wealth and women", so he "can't effectively manage" them, which would then require his other "metal" friends to come and help him (who comes and goes is determined by the 10 year luck periods). Which means until that element came, he probably wouldn't find himself a girlfriend because it's not favorable to his health.
I would then look to the woman's chart to see whether she had an excess of the "controlling" element. Let's say she was born on the day of earth element; then the controlling element would be wood; if she was born at the time when wood was strong, and there were many wood elements in her chart, it denotes that a lot of men would naturally try to get her; there are a lot of men in her life. It also means that because there are so many of them, not one of those "wood" element is really special to her. I'm not saying what she did was right, but that we need to look through many different lenses to understand each other.
The scary thing about Chinese astrology is that it will tell you if someone will steal your girlfriend/boyfriend, it will tell you if you'll be wealthy/poor, if you'll be good at school/or bad at school, and it will tell you if you'll have a good family life or not quite well.
But that doesn't mean any one person is born "bad." They may be born into an unfavorable condition, or they may be experiencing a bad luck period or year in regards to that element; clashes work in this manner; if you were in a bad situation and there is a clash, if it's positive it can break that bad situation; if negative, it can worsen the bad situation. I'm not saying anyone should just accept their four pillars as it is and get depressed that they'll never find the one, or that they'll always lose their girlfriend/boyfriend to someone else, but I think it is important that one realizes what elements are good for them, be more aware of what they have and what they do not have, so they can behave in a manner that won't be hurtful to another person, because Karma is very much in play here (although not quite in the same wording).
It may be possible that "in the next life," the cheating woman may end up as an earth element surrounded by lots of earth element, and one or no wood in her chart; then she'll end up having to fight over that one wood against all the other earth elements. Or even in this life, depending on strength of her element, she may not be able to handle it and lose it, or become too strong so the balance breaks.
Compatibility between two people is always very fickle, changing with years, months, and decades.
Let's look at the animals then.
There are 12 animals (we all know of them), they all have certain elements assigned to them (with other elements hidden in the stems). There are trines and squares:
Fire Trine: Tiger, Horse, Dog
Wood Trine: Pig, Rabbit, Sheep
Water Trine: Monkey, Rat, Dragon
Metal Trine: Snake, Rooster, Ox
A lot of people go by this trine for compatibility; but let's say a person is an earth element (with no other earth element), sitting on monkey, rat, dragon trine. This person has a lot of water (wealth), but he's weak, so he needs something to break it. What would he seek? He'll probably find someone with the fire trine animal in their charts because fire trine animal will clash against the water trine, break up the water trine, and warm up his chart, strengthening it. Technically, it's not a "good compatible situation," from animal purely, but that's what this person needs to balance himself out.
It's not the same for everyone because there are so many different charts out there. Now let's look at the clashing animals:
"Cant' stay still" Clash: Tiger, Monkey, Snake, Pig
"Lover" Clash: Rat, Horse, Rabbit, Rooster
"Thinks too much" Clash: Ox, Sheep, Dragon, Dog
the names in the "" is something I made up for easier understanding. "Can't stay still" animals move around a lot; people with these move around a lot; people in these animal periods may find themselves moving around a lot. If there are animals clashing those, then one may lose through "moving around so much". "Lover" animals tend to be attractive to the opposite sex, but it also brings in a lot of trouble in terms of love (all's fair in love and war; in their case, love = war, their entire life). "Thinks too much" animals... think too much; these are the four earth elements which are "graveyards" of different elements, and when there's a clash for these, it's like having an earthquake, and depending on which animals clash and what elements pop out of the "graveyards," it will have those effects.
In the above example, I think the man was born in the year of the horse, the woman the year of the rat; so let's look only at that; they obviously are attractive to each other ("lover" clash), but are they necessarily good for each other? It depends on whether this clash produces an element favorable to both people involved. It may have been that the element resulting from the clash wasn't good for either people. People cheat on others usually because they don't think they're getting "what they need" out of the relationship, I think... there are other reasons, but it may be that the clash didn't produce an element beneficial to both charts, but harmed it (as the result shows), but now, I'm only focusing on the year, which means there was a clash that may have ruined their "face". Obviously in-depth analysis would be better, but I don't have that information... and I think this is already in depth enough to explain the system to certain extent. Clash isn't bad; it just says that they may experience a lot of changes while they're with this person because they shape each other. This can be bad or good depending on one's chart, so looking at animal and determining on spot whether this person is good or bad for me is not good.
Not a lot of people are born with a perfectly balanced chart (element or living situations), which is why so many people "seek someone else" to balance their own chart out. That person may be in a "clashing" situation, or it may be that the person trines another element; but what is important is that no matter what happens, the "I (the self)" focus on bettering oneself, after it's all said and done, learn lessons and find someone who is a better fit, with the thought in mind that no one is perfect for each other without effort.
I hope I explained at least basically why judging based on one animal on the year pillar is not accurate and superficial at best. :)
If you have any questions (but I will not answer, is this person compatible with me? because I don't have that much skills to tell you) about something that I wrote, feel free to let me know, and I'll try to clarify; if you don't agree with what I wrote here, let me know and we can talk about what it is that is in conflict. :)
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Re: Misconceptions about Compatibility
Sat, October 24, 2009 - 3:46 PMThere's another factor.... and I didn't believe in this factor at first but it is a BIG factor that goes outside Chinese Astrology.
Upbringing and the envorinment one was bought up in.
I'll give you an example - My parents. Both were very strongly in love and when it all went wrong both of them up to this day are still bitter and angry towards each other (many many years down the line.)
So, I discovered that my parents had a decent western astrology match (Capricorn dad and virgo mum)
Both had great compatibility in Chinese Astrology. On the website for fortune angel they score a +7.
But now I know where it all went horribly wrong for my mum and dad. different upbringings.
Mum came from a very religious american background
Dad came from a very poor rough background where his family come possibly from roman gypsies. (I've seen my Dads uncles. Very curly hair, gruff weathered features and typical big hoop rings in their ears. Very gypsy like when you see them.)
Also, my Dad is highly intelligent and strayed from his family
My Mum isn't very bright and solely listened to her family for advice and religious views. Her family didn't approve of a man like my Dad yet they stayed mattied for 12 years, had five kids (me being one of them) and had a very messy break-up because of these clashes.
So, yeah I totally agree with you but I needed to fill in the blanks with a real-life example.
Basically, my Mum and Dad were very compatible but their backgrounds messed it up for them.
What do you think? -
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Re: Misconceptions about Compatibility
Sat, October 24, 2009 - 3:47 PMSorry if my sentences seem a bit broken. I get fed up of using full comprehensive English and I like to get my point out faster than I can type.
So, please excuse my odd sentence structures :)
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Re: Misconceptions about Compatibility
Sat, October 24, 2009 - 4:11 PMFirst of all, I tried that fortune angel site, and I must say... it's not the best site out there. I know some people swear by them, but it's really not perfect. For example, I have one of those "abnormal type" charts, which means my "preferable element" is not to "balance" the imbalance, but to go with the strongest element. That website failed to address that, and said "my lucky element" was water, which is actually my "worst element". I really wouldn't take that site to heart; it's not a human being, and it may not be able to determine the entire component of a person's chart.
As for your first point, you're right that upbringing and environment will affect how a person behaves; the interesting thing is, Chinese astrology will address that; the ten year luck periods if favorable will generally provide the person with a "favorable' memory of that decade, and a lot of "bad things" may happen during touch luck periods, but people grow during those tough cycles, and they're better for it when they rise from it, and like I addressed in the "REALLY LONG" post up there (I really can talk up a storm, can't I?), that big factor will be addressed; it won't be set in stone what a person will do, but it does provide how a person's environment may be shaped each ten years, and each year will also shape that environment, via opportunities and crises.
I don't know your family background, but it seems like your parents had some serious issues during the second luck period of their marriage, which is quite difficult. Even in marriage, time continues, and difficult times will follow happy times, and vice versa. There is a theory out there that people who are too compatible may not be able to handle difficult times because they're not used to "problem solving" that clashing couples are used to, but that's just a theory.
What's interesting about compatibility is that the stronger the differences, the stronger the attraction, and the stronger the battles, it could be fatal, or it could be a triumph. Really though, when it comes to the matter of the heart, or anything about a person's personality, someone who is perfectly compatible (as in friends, co-workers) to your "animals" may not be so "perfect" when put into actual practice. -
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Re: Misconceptions about Compatibility
Wed, October 28, 2009 - 3:13 PMThank you for this valuable posting...it's really helped me get a better viewpoint on chinese astrology Hikaruchin.
Quickly are they're any sites you recommend so i can further my education or cast charts? -
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Re: Misconceptions about Compatibility
Fri, October 30, 2009 - 8:38 AMI actually had to research for this information and have been doing so for about a year now; mostly using Korean. I haven't been able to find a good English site that'll tell you all of this in one go, but a good place to start is to google "Four Pillars" and go from there, really.
I don't like paying for things, so I usually do a significant amount of research online. If you're willing to pay money, I'm sure there is a site somewhere that is willing to sell you books on the material. -
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Re: Misconceptions about Compatibility
Sat, October 31, 2009 - 3:52 AMThe one place I found to have good information is this : -
www.taoinnerfengshui.com/astrology.php
I found this when seeing a chiinese man explaining feng shui on youtube. I then realised he had a website when typing 'universal tao system' into google and found the website link above.
I found this man to be the most thorough and realistic at explaining chinese astrology so far.
the elements relating to parts of the organs in the body makes a lot of sense. When we are born we are more in tuned with the natural energies of earths elements which affects our health and eventually our outlook on life.
We all know what our mind is thinking all the time but we don't know what our subconscious is delaing with for the rest of our body.
That could be why people find it easier to understand western astrology first.
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